“For some people, that got very messy, and very quickly” – Shane Horgan on debuts, chasings and initiations

“Listen, that happens 100% of the time. I’m yesterday’s news!”

The last time I spoke with Shane Horgan, for an Energia event out at the Donnybrook stadium that now holds their name, I was scolded afterward for not asking about his sister, Sharon.

Wary of avoiding a repeat, this interview with Horgan – 69 times capped for Ireland and a Virgin Media pundit for this year’s Six Nations – begins with a question about the star of Catastrophe, This Way Up and Game Night.

She Horgan jokes that most of the questions he gets these days are about his siblings [his brother, Mark Horgan co-produced Where’s George Gibney] than rugby. “Sharon is absolutely flying it at the moment. She’s doing great.”

We have a 15-minute window to have a catch up, over Zoom. Horgan is helping to promote Virgin’s weekend coverage of the Six Nations and – despite this probably being interview number six of 13 – he is in top form.

“I absolutely love the Six Nations,” he professes. “It’s my favourite tournament. I have great memories of it, not from just playing in it but growing up and watching it; going to games.

“And it always delivers. Last year should have been a rubbish year as it was behind closed doors. But it delivered.

“I was doing a pre-Six Nations preview and I thought to myself, ‘Jeez, am I laying it on a bit thick here?’ And then we had that opening weekend and the games were phenomenal. Brilliant. And even though the quality of the Scotland, England game wasn’t great, it was unbelievably exciting. I’m very lucky to stay part of it by doing this job.”

Shane Horgan on Ireland debut initiations

This weekend, Ireland are in Paris to take on a France side that many are backing for the Six Nations title. Ireland may have 2014 and 2018 wins over Les Bleus in this city, in this tournament, but Thursday’s news that Johnny Sexton would miss out has dented optimism here.

Andy Farrell’s side is otherwise full-strength, though, and Horgan feels this encounter will be a close-run thing. Ireland, he believes, have shown plenty of other players can stand up and make big plays when required.

On February 19, back in 2000, Horgan came into an Ireland side that certainly did not have that weight of expectation on them, like the current crop do.

The 1990s had been bleak for Irish rugby and many Five Nations campaigns often had one victory to cling onto, amid the usual carnage. The likes of South Africa, Australia and New Zealand would all drop by for routine wins whenever they were in town.

The Meath native, who spent a good few of his formative years in New Zealand, was one of five Irish debutants, against Scotland, after Warren Gatland made a raft of changes. As Horgan pointed out, a 50-18 defeat to England, two weeks before, had ‘ended a few Test careers’ for Irish lads.

Horgan, Peter Stringer, Simon Easterby, John Hayes and Ronan O’Gara all made their debuts, while Mick Galwey and Denis Hickie came back in from the cold. Ireland won 44-22 with Horgan, converted from centre [at Leinster] to the wing, getting one of five Irish tries.

Initiations for modern players often evolve around singing a song in front of the lads in the changing room, after a game. More recently, Mack Hansen crooned ‘Sweet Caroline’ while Craig Casey fearlessly went for ‘Careless Whisper’ in Rome. That tradition extends back to Horgan’s time, but there was another one that may not be quite as full-on as it used to be.

“The games used to be more spaced out, so there would be a two-week gap, or more, between games. And, I don’t think I’m breaking any confidences here, but there wouldn’t have been that level of professionalism, back then, as there is now.

“That would have been drink-related, too. For a long time, after games, you’d go to a black-tie dinner and anybody on that team could come up to have a drink with you, and you’d have to have that drink. For some people, that got very, very messy, and very quickly. Sometimes you had a whole team to go through, and the opposition.

“But, luckily, it was spread out a bit more [after the Scotland game] between the five of us. So I got away with it, just about!”

‘I never felt confident going to Paris’ – Horgan

It is almost 20 years since Shane Horgan had his first taste of a Six Nations trip to Paris to take on France. He was 14 caps into his international career, at that stage, and had played strong England, New Zealand and South African sides, but France were at another level, that day.

Although he made his Test debut in the 2000 championship, he had missed out on the Brian O’Driscoll-inspired win at Stade de France. “I never won over there,” he says, “and I seemed to miss the years that we did win, so I don’t know what that says!”

Two years on, and a France side captained by scrumhalf Fabien Galthie [now their head coach] exacted punishing revenge over Eddie O’Sullivan’s side. They ran in four first-half tries and ended up winning 44-5.

“I never felt confident going over there, or thought, ‘Listen, we’ve got this’. I felt optimistic a number of times, but there were a couple of occasions where it took us a while to get going and we nearly caught them [with comebacks], but there were a good few blow-outs.

“It was still at the point where France were still well ahead, and play them at home was a specific challenge. That has changed. It’s not that playing France in Paris is not a massive challenge, and Ireland haven’t won there that often. The expectation will continue that France should win in Paris against, pretty much, anyone.

“Even in their dark days, in the 2010s, there was still a difficulty in going to Paris and winning over there. That has changed dramatically.”

Ireland were able to turn the tables on France from 2012 to 2016 [six wins and two draws in nine Tests], but France have won the two latest contests. Even without Johnny Sexton, though, this Irish side will back themselves to win.

Horgan, like the rest of us, will be watching closely.

Six Nations Coverage continues on Virgin Media One. France vs. Ireland coverage begins today (Saturday) from 2pm. Italy vs. England is Sunday from 2pm on Virgin Media One, and you can catch all the highlights on Virgin Media Two on Sunday at 7pm.

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