They don’t make ’em like this anymore
If Liverpool or Manchester United fans see a former player on the street then you would think they’d automatically seek out a photograph or a dreaded selfie. But Paul Ince is different. After leaving Manchester United in 1995 to sign for Inter Milan, he returned to England to play with Liverpool at the tail end of the Roy Evans era.
He captained both sides, the only man to do so in 50 years. So when he’s asked where his allegiance lies ahead of Sunday’s Premier League game at Anfield, he’s naturally wary.
‘It’s a big game because it’s Liverpool v Man United and that will always be a big game. But it’s changed – if Chelsea were playing Manchester City the same day which would you be watching? Liverpool v Manchester United games through history have been massive games because there’s been individual battles all over the pitch. After watching United against Tottenham, I thought, ‘this is going to be a good game’.
‘Liverpool are flying at home so I’m looking forward to that. If you’re going to push me for a result, I think Liverpool will win. At home, they’re really, really strong.’
Ince arrived at Anfield in 1997 as a young teenage midfielder by the name of Steven Gerrard was just emerging through the Liverpool youth system.
The current club captain has been absent for the last seven weeks due to injury while his teammates have gone on an incredible winning run to push them to the brink of the Champions League spots. Does the 46-year old feel that the iconic No 8 has to start Sunday?
‘I think any Liverpool team with Stevie Gerrard is going to be better, not just from a footballing point of view but a leadership point of view. Stevie G is like a comfort blanket. When he is in your team you feel comfortable, you think, ‘oh good, Stevie G is there’. They’ve won without him, managed to do well, but you need him in your side, especially on Sunday. It’s one of those games where you need your men, your warriors, and that’s what Stevie Gerrard is.’
And what has he made of his other former side under their new manager Louis Van Gaal? Life after Alex Ferguson and David Moyes has been difficult for Manchester United but they are still on course to return to the Champions League with less than 10 games to go in the season.
How does the former MK Dons manager feel the Dutchman’s style suits the former Premier League champions traditions?
‘I’m not too sure whether he’s trying to get United to play like the Dutch team that he was in charge of. It seems like that to me but it doesn’t work, I mean you’re trying to play Wayne Rooney in midfield. You’ve got the great goalscorer for Man Utd, the top goalscorer for England currently yet he’s playing in midfield and that doesn’t sit right for me. You’re trying to put square pegs in round holes, that’s how I see it.’
Ince was one of the cornerstones of the first great Manchester United team created by Ferguson in his six year spell at the club from 1989 to 1995. The disastrous tenure of David Moyes has been followed by more upheaval and disappointing performances at times under LVG. How does the former Blackpool boss view Ferguson’s legacy nearly two years after his retirement?
‘It is just like Jordan Henderson and Gerrard. You can’t replace Gerrard and you can’t replace Sir Alex Ferguson. He just gives you that motivation and that desire and makes you feel that you’re better than you actually are. He’s Mr Man United, isn’t he? He’s Mr Man United. He can’t explain what he does, he just does it, if that makes sense.’
Ask any hardcore Manchester United fan and they will tell you that Ferguson was sick of the so called ‘Guv’nor’ image that Ince created and nurtured during his time at Old Trafford and which ultimately led to his transfer to Inter Milan.
It’s assumed that the midfielder was bombed out of the club in the infamous cull of 1995 that also saw Mark Hughes and Andrei Kancheskis also exit the club. Ince dismisses the notion that he and the Scot had a major falling out.
‘Funnily enough on the day I left, he actually rang me from Colorado Springs and said I want you to stay. I had Massimo Moratti in my kitchen, true story, about to sign a five-year deal for Inter Milan. He rang from Colorado Springs and said I’ve made a mistake. I said, ‘No, sorry boss, I’ve got people in Inter Milan.’ It was all done and dusted.
‘We get on well. People have this perception that we didn’t get on but we got on really well, more so when I started managing. He used to ring me up, we used to meet for coffee. People thought that because I left to go to Inter Milan that we didn’t get on well but we actually got on really, really well.’
In the end it always comes back to Roy. Paul Ince played with the Corkman for two seasons at Manchester United and even in that brief spell they formed a terrifying midfield partnership. Both were admired but ultimately disposed of by Alex Ferguson when he felt he had no more use for them in his squad. Does Ince find it somewhat sad there is such naked distrust between two men who enjoyed great success together?
‘Well, you can achieve much without talking, look at Andy Cole and Teddy Sheringham! It’s true, they never spoke for three or four years but they played together and won many things. Roy Keane has a – what can I say – an ego.
‘We all had egos at Man United because that’s what made us who we were. We were arrogant in a way, maybe you can take it too far. We were arrogant because we knew that we were a good team. We had these egos, myself, Peter Schmeichel, Keane, Robson, Cantona. Egos, that’s what made Manchester United such a good side.’
As two competitive players who played hard and also had a reputation for partying hard. Was there any sparks between two players who at one stage may have been competing for the same midfield role?
‘I have always found Roy a nice guy and very private. I was there for two years with Roy and I never had a row with him. If we did, I’d win it. (laughs)
‘He moans but we all f**king moan! But he does moan and sometimes he moans too much. ‘Keane, for f**k sake, shut up, will you!’ Then he goes off again and you just walk away from him. You have to know how to deal with him! He does want higher standards and if he does not get them, he’s not happy. That’s not a bad way to be.’
Ince and Keane have both been burnt by their stints in club management. The first black man to captain England in 1993 knows more than most about the managerial merry go round. He began life with Macclesfield in 2007 after a short lived period as player-coach with Swindon Town.
After a successful spell in charge of MK Dons he was regarded is one of the bright young coaches if the English game, but his time as Blackburn boss was less rewarding and there was subsequent spells at MK Dons (again), Notts County and Blackpool, his last managerial job, which was terminated in January 2014. He is hopeful of getting back into management some day but admits he is wary.
‘I’m 47 and Roy is 44, we’re still young managers. I’m not old school. I played for Manchester United, Liverpool and Inter Milan but I had to go to Macclesfield to get a manager’s job. It was not like Shearer who got the Newcastle job with loads of funds.
‘I’ve gone through the right process. I’m not hard school or old school. You see it with the longevity of managers nowadays it’s madness.
‘Sometimes I’m sitting there and I’m thinking well I’ve manged five teams, I’ve done respectfully well and I love football but the game’s changed. You try and go back into management and the longevity of it could be six months, it could be nine months. And that’s the worrying thing and it makes me think of staying back a bit.’
And what of another former teammate of both Ince and Keane’s who is now the No 2 at Manchester United. Ryan Giggs took temporary charge of the club after the sacking of David Moyes almost 12 months ago and is believed to be eager to take the managerial job when Van Gaal departs.
Does Ince think the most successful player in Premier League history will be the next man to take the helm at Old Trafford?
‘No, absolutely no chance. I don’t see it. Giggsy’s my best mate and I can sit here and tell you. Giggsy enjoyed last year, he enjoyed the experience, he loved it. And now under Van Gaal he’s learning.
‘But I said to Giggsy, ‘you gotta go to a club that you can learn from and get experience. Go manage a League One side or League Two side or because you’re Ryan Giggs you might get a Championship team. You can’t just throw him into Man Utd, one of the biggest clubs in the world ‘there ya go Giggsy.’ He’s not ready for that yet and it will never happen.
‘Fans might say it would be great but in reality why would you put Giggs in a situation where if he doesn’t succeed you have to sack him. Learn from Van Gaal and then go out and find your own feet as a manager. Then come back and say I’ve done five six seven years, and that’s how I see the road for Giggsy.’
Ince was in Dublin on Wednesday night where he witnessed a heated discussion on RTE’s Champions League panel about another disappointing season for Manchester City.
Ince saw his old teammate from his formative years at West Ham, Liam Brady, discussing the club’s inability to build long term success. Ince agrees that the culture of trying to buy success is not sustainable.
‘You can say ‘We’re Manchester City and we’re going to bringing the best players in’ but they aren’t the best players. The Premier League isn’t the best league. It’s the most financially rewarding league but ain’t the best league. The Fifa XI or the Uefa XI didn’t have one player from the Premier League in that team. It’s unheard of not having an English club in the quarter-finals of the not only the Champions League but the Europa League too.
‘We have a culture but we’re trying to change it to be like Real Madrid and we haven’t got the mindset and the fans.
‘The fans won’t allow us if there is two minutes to go and we’re playing it from the back they’re like ‘F*ck that and get it forward’. That’s our culture. You saw what PSG did to Chelsea with 10 men. Different culture, different mindset. We can’t change it and I don’t know why we’re trying to change it.’
Paul Ince was speaking to SportsJOE as part of Carlsberg’s 2015 #JoinTheGreats campaign
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