"If we had Jurgen Klopp, we would be 10 points clear"
They used to attempt to call Klopp a nearly man.
Bottled it in finals, they said. He usually had the underdogs in those deciders he lost but people don't need much to make their minds up about someone. Maybe Twitter isn't judge, jury and executioner. Who knows?
In the space of a year, Klopp has added to his Bundesliga titles. A Champions League winner. A Super Cup winner. A World Club Cup winner. A Premier League winner.
It was clear all along that he had the right stuff, even through the Lovren and Karius days. It was more obvious to the Borussia Dortmund contingent who've celebrated just one Germany cup since he's left.
Now they're left with Lucien Favre as their hope but, after almost two seasons, the Swiss man hasn't won the hearts of Dortmund.
The Football Spin is back with Dion Fanning and Paddy McKenna and with renowned German journalist Heiko Wasser joining them - and with only one league catching the world's attention at the minute - the question was simple. Can Borussia Dortmund beat Bayern to a title? If not this year, then next.
The answer from Wasser was simpler.
"Not with this useless manager.
"With the squad we have this year, if we still had Jurgen Klopp, we would be 10 points clear. Because we have brilliant players, excellent footballers but we have a coward.
"He is perfect in tactics and explaining things properly during practice but he is not a motivator. He is not a guy who sends out 11 guys on the pitch and really forces them to run like hell. And this is what we must have to have a chance against Bayern.
"They still have too much money."
To combat that advantage they have in Bavaria, you need more than just tactical nous. You need what Klopp has, essentially. The whole package.
"Everybody in Dortmund is still missing Klopp," Wasser said.
"The thing is, the guy we now have, Favre, he is not emotional at all and to really beat Bayern in Germany, you would need to have either [Julian] Nagelsmann or [Marco] Rose - the two manager of Leipzig and Gladbach. Those two guys have the ability to bring a team forward but they don't have a proper team. We have a proper team to beat Bayern, but we have a useless manager."
Listen to the full episode below. Football is back, baby.